Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120
04/27/2017 03:00 PM House STATE AFFAIRS
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HR5 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HR 5 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HR 5-HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PER DIEM LIMITS
3:54:29 PM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that the only order of business
would be HOUSE RESOLUTION NO. 5, Urging the House of
Representatives to adopt a policy for per diem paid to its
members based on the United States Department of Defense federal
flat rate per diem schedule.
3:54:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP, as prime sponsor of HR 5, referred to the
first paragraph of the sponsor statement, which read in part
[original punctuation provided]: "This Resolution would provide
for a clear and transparent policy for per diem payments". He
maintained that he included that statement because he believes
the budget process on the House floor needs improvement, and
introduction of this resolution would encourage more detailed
discussion and a better thought out policy. He paraphrased from
the second paragraph of the sponsor statement, which read as
follows [original punctuation provided]:
House Resolution 5 would adopt the United States
Department of Defense (DoD) federal flat rate per diem
schedule providing the members of the House of
Representatives who reside outside of Juneau be paid
at the full federal per diem rate for the first 30
days of each regular session and, for the remainder of
each regular session at 75 percent of the DoD full per
diem rate. Currently members are paid the full per
diem rate for all days in session.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP referred to the document included in the
committee packet and entitled "Flat Rate Per Diem Outside the
Continental United States." He explained that in this document,
the per diem rates are labeled the "100% rate" and the "75%
rate"; he said he refers to them as the "short-term rate" and
the "long-term rate." He maintained that instituting the
Department of Defense (DoD) 100 percent rate for the first 30
days of the legislative session makes sense, because it
accommodates the move and getting situated; after that, one's
daily expenses would most likely decline, justifying the 75
percent rate for the long-term duration.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP referred to the third paragraph of the
sponsor statement, which read [original punctuation provided]:
"House Resolution 5 would also reduce the per diem for the
members who reside in Juneau to 75 percent of the rate paid to
members who do not reside in Juneau." He said that has been the
policy; the intent of the proposed resolution is to avoid
discrimination; and to facilitate the policy being adopted, he
chose one that was familiar to the legislature. He maintained
that the Juneau legislators are not able to work at their
regular jobs while on duty at the legislature; they have travel
expenses coming to and from the capitol building; and they have
meal expenses as well. He asserted that he supports the 75
percent per diem rate for the Juneau legislators. In the
proposed resolution, after the 30-day period, the Juneau
legislators would continue to receive the 75 percent per diem
rate along with the legislators not residing in Juneau.
3:58:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP relayed that he primarily focused on policy
when drafting the proposed resolution; his staff focused on the
dollar amount. He maintained that adopting the DoD rates would
save the state money: in the 90-day session there would be a
savings of $162,698; in a 120-day session there would be a
savings of a little over $244,000. He said that he provided the
federal per diem rate schedule to the committee to demonstrate
the detailed analysis that is involved in determining the rates;
it is updated annually and adjusted seasonally. He referred to
previous committee discussions suggesting the [State Officers
Compensation Commission (SOCC)] perform that work; he mentioned
that he is concerned that the commission would not have the
manpower to do its due diligence, and the resulting rate
schedule would be arbitrary in nature. He asserted that
adopting a policy was of greater importance, and his desire is
to have the legislative body make that determination.
4:01:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if the Legislative Council sets per
diem rates currently.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP replied that the Legislative Council does
set the per diem rates; by statute the SOCC may review it and
make recommendations.
4:02:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH expressed his appreciation for the proposed
resolution.
4:02:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if HR 5 would affect only the per
diem rates for the House, not the Senate.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP answered, "That is correct." He relayed
that the Senate has already set its rates separately from the
House per diem in this budget cycle.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked for the rationale behind using the
full per diem rate for the first thirty days and the 75 percent
per diem rate for the other two months.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP reiterated the many expenses involved
during the first 30 days of the legislative session in Juneau;
and he maintained that the expenses most likely would decrease
after the initial "settling in." He asserted that his intent
was to establish a policy; however, his staff estimated that
there would be about a $244,000 savings in a 120-day session
under the proposed per diem rates.
4:04:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked what the difference was between what
is proposed under HR 5 and using the long-term federal per diem
rates.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP responded that the current short-term per
diem rate is about $275; the recommended long-term rate from 31
days to 120 days is about $206. He maintained that the
accumulative savings for a 90-day session would be about
[$162,698]; for a 120-day session, it would be about $244,000.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked why the federal long-term per diem
rate was not used in the proposed resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP opined that the expenses for legislators
during the first 30 days are greater than after the first 30
days, when they have adjusted to the move.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if the 75 percent per diem rate
after the first 30 days was close to the federal short-term or
long-term per diem rates.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP answered that it was the same as the
federal per diem rate. He pointed out the long-term and short
term per diem rates side-by-side in the chart; and he maintained
that the federal government was very specific about its
intention for the use of these rates.
4:07:48 PM
DIANNE BLUMER, Staff, Representative Gary Knopp, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Representative Knopp, prime sponsor of
HR 5, expressed her belief that the legislature started using
the federal rate in 1994, and the rate it chose to use was the
100 percent rate. Under the federal rate per diem standard,
there is a 1- through 30-day rate, which is the 100 percent
rate, and the 31- through 180-day rate, which is the 75 percent
rate. She maintained that when the legislature decided to use
the federal per diem rate, only the 100 percent rate was used,
not the whole chart. She said that the proposed resolution
would adopt the federal regulations entirely; therefore, the 75
percent per diem rate would be used as the DoD designed it to be
used. She mentioned that the legislature had "cherry-picked"
from the chart previously.
4:09:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL commented that technically the rates under
the proposed resolution are cherry-picked; when the intended
stay is known to be over 30 days, that should automatically put
the legislators into the [long-term] 75 percent category.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP conceded that using the 100 percent rate
for the entire period shows a lack of discipline on the part of
the legislature; he reiterated that getting settled, buying
supplies, and dining out poses additional costs in the first 30
days; the intent of the resolution is to compensate legislators
for those additional expenses.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL pointed to some of the rates on the charts
for the various locations and speculated that they were based on
hotel lodging and dining out; he mentioned that those rates may
or may not apply to legislators.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP referred to the totals in the third column,
entitled "Maximum Per Diem," and said that they represent the
accumulative rates. He emphasized the considerable analysis and
work that goes into calculating rates and adjustments. He
pointed out that due to the rate adjustment that occurred early
in the session, his per diem rate increased $69, but the rate
for Anchorage decreased $100.
4:12:00 PM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked if DoD pays the 100 percent rate to a
member of the U.S. Armed Forces during the first 30 days of
deployment - even if it is known the person will be deployed for
longer than 30 days - and then decreases it to the 75 percent
after the first 30 days, or if he/she is paid the 75 percent per
diem rate for the full duration.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP answered that he does not know.
4:13:08 PM
JESSICA GEARY, Finance Manager, Legislative Administrative
Services, Legislative Affairs Agency (LAA), offered her
understanding that if the intent for the duty assignment is to
last longer than 30 days, the 75 percent per diem rate will be
used for the entirety of the "temporary duty" station.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL commented that the proposed resolution is
well-intended; it would be easy to find fault with the chart.
He offered that the goal of SOCC was to look at the entire
"compensation package," including salary and per diem. He
suggested that most legislators are not staying in a nightly
hotel and paying nightly rates. He maintained that the
compensation package should be considered in totality and not
"broken into little pieces."
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP responded that legislators' needs vary from
one to another - some come with families and some are alone -
but per diem rates should not reflect those differences. He
maintained that the intent of the proposed resolution is to
accommodate all legislators.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP referred to page 1, line 1, of HR 5, which
read, "Urging the House of Representatives to adopt a policy".
He maintained that the intent of the proposed resolution is to
adopt a policy; all other issues can be debated and/or amended.
He said that the paragraph on page 1, lines 6-9, explains the
current practice for legislative per diem. The paragraph
beginning on page 1, line 13, and ending on page 2, line 3,
explains the per diem rates under the resolution - the short-
term 100 percent rate and the long-term 75 percent rate. He
said that the paragraph on page 2, lines 4-8, clarifies the per
diem rates for special session, which could be held outside of
Juneau. The paragraph on page 2, lines 9-13, discusses
following the model of the DoD per diem rate chart so as not to
discriminate against any legislator. He said that the paragraph
on page 2, lines 18-23, specifies the special session per diem
rates: the 100 percent rate for legislators not residing in the
location of the special session; 75 percent rate for those
residing in the location.
4:18:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX pointed out that resolutions are usually
sent to another entity - Congress or the governor. She stated
that HR 5 appears to be a resolution to the legislature. She
asked to whom the resolution would go, if passed. She
maintained that if it goes to Legislative Council, there would
be the same problems with inaction as currently exist.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP concurred that the resolution is intended
for the House of Representatives only; in the budget cycle the
Senate set its rates separately. He stated that his intent was
for the chair of the House Rules Standing Committee to put the
resolution before the body for discussion and vote without a
"chit" sheet; if it passes, the Legislative Council would then
follow the guidelines.
4:20:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK expressed his appreciation for compensation
allowances for all legislators, who are all pulled away from
their normal jobs.
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked for confirmation that the resolution
proposes that legislators living in Anchorage will receive the
75 percent per diem rate during a special session if the special
session is held in Anchorage.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP answered, that's exactly right.
[HR 5 was held over.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HR 5 Sponsor Statement 4.26.17.pdf |
HSTA 4/27/2017 3:00:00 PM HSTA 5/16/2017 3:00:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR 5 ver J 4.26.17.PDF |
HSTA 4/27/2017 3:00:00 PM HSTA 5/16/2017 3:00:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR 5 Supporting Document - DOD Fed Per Diem Rates 4.26.17.pdf |
HSTA 4/27/2017 3:00:00 PM HSTA 5/16/2017 3:00:00 PM |
HR 5 |